we like to think that people are rewarded and punished based on their actions, we assume they have free will, yet we never seem to think how those actions are chosen, we know that genes play a large part in your actions, and you cant choose your genes, we know that environment and upbringing plays a large part too, yet you cant choose those either, so in the end, who are we really punishing or rewarding when we call people good or bad, lazy and hard working, are we praising them or are we praising the random chances that made them? if its the first then its clearly wrong, and if its the latter then its no different from praising a dice block for rolling a high number, or punishing a dice block for rolling a low number
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@grimview @heckomaku Why are you using extreme opposites to justify blaming others for your choices? Why can't you take responsibility for your own actions? If you believe "important it is to build good habits" & that "genetics" prevent you from doing this then how could "parents never limiting my use" make any difference in the out come. 'Genetics' basically becomes the extreme fall back excuse, when 'environment' fails as an excuse. While these things may shape ones life it is the ability to learn that allows us to choose our path.
Take for example Ruth Batter Ginsburg, both her I, graduated at the top of our class & blamed traditional gender roles for our lack of finding jobs; however, when offered the job opportunity of a life time by her husband, Ruth stated "I don't do tax cases." Similarly I hated heavy lifting slave labor, yet when offered the opportunity to work register, I too said "no put me on stock." Had my and Ruth continued to make pathetic excuses not to do the work we claimed to want to do, then we would have continued not to change. "They don't have jobs cause they don't want THOSE jobs."
That's not my point, I don't know for sure that if I had limited technology use as a teen then I would be any different today, but it couldn't have made it worse. Genetics AND environment shape your behavior, when your environment is perfect then the only explanation for your short comings is genetics, just look at sports for example, millions of people are as hard working as any pro athlete but can never be good enough to compete at that level, because of their genetics. What made you make you choose to do stock in the first place though? It's a combination of genetics and environment, which goes back to my point being that you can't choose these variables in the first place. You probably feel like you have a choice, and you probably project that sense of control on others and rationalize that the only reason they don't "work hard" is because they choose not to, but it's wrong, a lot of things are out of our control. Take drug addicts for example, they may want to quit but are unable to, because they can't control their compulsions. A more relatable answer is excessive internet use, I'm sure everyone has procrastinated an assignment only to go down a YouTube/reddit/Instagram/TikTok etc rabbit hole, despite wanting to do their assignment.
@grimview @heckomaku @heckomaku
>I don't know for sure that if I had limited technology use as a teen then I would be any different today, but it couldn't have made it worse.
Spoiled children often run away from home when parents crack down. Others physically fight back. Why would you choose to do neither?
Why is it too late to for ask help?
>What made you choose to do stock in the first place though?
When I graduated the top of my class, I could not find work in my trade. I tried a temp agency to find ANY work, which sent me to do slave labor in warehouses (similar experience to stock work). I did not want to work in warehouse but I need to build a resume & pay bills. Eventually the temp assignment became further apart & pay rates dropped. After a year with no work & rates dropping from 10 to 8, I figured I could get a retail Christmas job & try to make it permantant. During the retail interview I asked for stock when offered customer service, because my teachers & classmates gave me an imaginary disease.
My teachers put me in 6 years of speech therapy with is defined as showing understanding by being complainant. They tried to convince me that "noise bothers me." My classmates often called me 'quiet', because I answered alot of questions, & they really meant that I "should be quiet." Point is I thought I could not do customer service (talk to people) due to my imaginary genetic disease. After 2 years, I realized I could work register & after 6 months begging found a way to assist signing up 3 people for credit cards when the store had 1 day promotional ad where "everyone got a card" with a limit of min $100. The register person walked a way & people asked to fill out the form, resulting in a supervisor making a big deal about this cause its impossible for stock to sign up a single people yet I saw the opportunity & did not hesitate. Instead I could have told them to wait for the register worker to return & miss my chance, just as I missed the chance when asked 2 years ago due to fear. Also while working I met other that started on the register & switched to stock, which I didn't know that was an option. Thru experience I learn to ask the right questions.
>You probably feel like you have a choice, and you probably project that sense of control on others and rationalize that the only reason they don't "work hard" is because they choose not to
I want to build upon this. If we believe we have an imaginary genetic disease, then what stops us from becoming addicted to making excuses to procrastinate & avoid working.
For example, mom would often use genetic gender roles as excuses to get others to do work & justify being angry if not prefect. Thus no one want to work for her.
In one case, our kitchen was apart for 2 years & only got finished because I started blaming the imaginary "contractor" for work I did in secret. However, my biologically weaker mom came home early one day & started ripping up floor tiles from drying concrete, after spending months claiming she could not lift the floor tiles. This is called Co-dependency and Passive/Aggressive behavior. This is why addicts use fear of a higher power/God/police/Santa/taxman, to regain control over one's own life; or the reverse, fear of china's bioweapon/climate change/racism/sexism/etc to stay home to slowly starve to death.
How do you know that someone is not gaslighting you with an imaginary genetic disease to hurt you? How could you compete to be in control of your life & gain market dominance over others lives? What would happen if you just woke up one day & stop believing the marketing sales pitches & started questioning how the world really works? What can you do differently?
grimview
The difference between praise & shame is point of view. Often people exaggerate shame so much that it becomes envious praise. For example we may say that 'rich people just lay around doing nothing all day,' therefor, it can be viewed as 'being lazy is life goal' instead of 'not being lazy.' While 2 children will hear the same phrase 1 may work so hard that there is no work left to be done by the other child, so the other child may try to avoid doing work to have the 'rich life.'
Your truth neglects the fact that 2 people raised in the same environment with the same parents can have individual personalities & even different experiences. The point of the shame/praise is to shape ones view point or to control ones behavior. Only with constant physical enforcement, can the behavior of other be controlled, otherwise its the individuals choice. In the above example the constant control, is the person that refuses to allow the others to do work.
" Your doing it wrong! Here I'll show you how to do it for the millionth time by doing it for you! Why does nobody help! Why do I have to do everything my self! " Get it?
heckomaku
If your environment is exactly equal to another person than any variance in behavior would be caused by purely genetic factors, siblings are not identical genetically and even small changes can have drastic effects. Even if shame or praise would help certain people my point is that there is no way to [i]choose[/i] a life where you can get that kind of support, you can't choose what your parents are like. Personality doesn't tend to change much after age 18 (except with severe mental illness but that's a major problem itself), and you can't change your environment much before 18, if you're parents don't care about you or you have a bad teacher then too bad, you're fucked. That's why people always stress how important it is to build good habits in your teen years, because that is the easiest time to do it, in my case I spent my entire teen years playing video games or looking at memes and I blame my parents for never limiting my use.